Garth Brown

              Garth Arthur Brown Interview – June 28, 2000
Transcribed by Russ Sherwin, June 2, 2010 Prescott, Arizona Subject: Garth Arthur “Brownie” Brown Occupation: mining equipment operator; welder; plumber; mechanic; former mayor of Wickenburg. Born: July 20, 1910 Interviewer: Mona McCroskey Interview date: June 28, 2000 Place of Interview: Wickenburg, Arizona Topic of interview: Life and times around Congress, Arizona. Source recording: Audio cassette tape #1324 & 1325 (dup) Sharlot Hall Library Archives Page 2 of 50
Interview Begins:
(Also Present: Garna Melugin and Lorri Carlson.) McCroskey: This is Mona McCroskey. It‟s June 28, 2000 and I‟m in Wickenburg, Arizona with Garth Brown, who has graciously agreed to talk with me for Sharlot Hall Museum‟s oral history program. May I call you Brownie? Brown: Yes, Ma‟am. McCroskey: Thank you. You were born in 1910. Would you tell me who in your family came to Arizona first and why and when? Brown: Well, I don‟t know when my grandmother came here. McCroskey: What was her name? Brown: Well, I don‟t know—Ramona. All I know her by is Peterson; Ramona Peterson. In fact, she was born in Tempe and my mother was born in Tempe. McCroskey: What was your mother‟s name? Brown: Alice Juhl. She was born in 1893. My grandfather worked at the Hayden Flour Mills. When they moved to Congress he worked in the assay office at the old Congress Mine. Page 3 of 50
McCroskey: Do you know when they moved to Congress? Brown: I don‟t know. Probably around „04. „04 or „05, somewhere in there. I‟m not sure. I don‟t know. What else d‟you need to know? McCroskey: Well, tell me about your father. Brown: Oh, my father, he came to Arizona from Texas. Probably—I don‟t know what date he come there. McCroskey: And what was his name? Brown: Jim Brown. McCroskey: So your parents met and married in Congress? Brown: Far as I know. That‟s before my time! (Laughs) McCroskey: That‟s right! Tell me what your first memories are. Brown: Far back as I can remember? Oh—gosh, I don‟t know. Never tried to figger that out. Goes back quite a ways. McCroskey: That was in Congress, though? Brown: Yeah, goes back when I was about two years old. I don‟t know what to tell you „bout what I first remember— McCroskey: Well, do you remember starting school? Page 4 of 50
Brown: Yes. McCroskey: What was the school like at Congress? Brown: It was the old original school, but—I remember my first day I had to fuss around, they put me on the girls‟ side. You know, that was like, killin‟ ya‟! Wouldn‟t let you be on the boys side; I had to sit on the girls side all one day! That‟s when they kept the girls on one side and the boys on the other side of the school. Didn‟t even get to play together. Later on they played together. I remember that first day of school. We came by wagon from the OX Ranch over the mountain there in a wagon, and I was leadin‟ a horse, saddle horse, behind me. I had a coil of rope in my hand and a stick came out from under the wagon, the horse stopped on this coil o‟ rope, peeled my hide off one arm. I remember havin‟ it bandaged up yet when I went to school. McCroskey: So your father was working at the OX Ranch?
Brown: Yes. He was a cowboy, primarily. Well, I went to school there and then it fell down, then they put us over in the church and it burned down, and finally they moved us to the Page 5 of 50
old Congress Mine office. We went to school there. I left there in „21. McCroskey Tell me about—the mine was running, right? Brown: No, it was shut down. „Bout that time they‟d started dismantling it. I „member the boarding house was still down there. Mrs. Murphy had a boarding house, and Mr. Langerot had a store and a baker‟s shop. Engelhart had a—oh, I guess he had candy, I remember. Kind of a gift store I guess. I don‟t know as they‟d have one in those days. Earliest I can remember was paintin‟ the post on the porch with soapsuds. I was probably about two. Well, I guess I might have even been younger than that when my brother was born. I remember cryin‟ „cause I wanted to speak with my mother and they wouldn‟t let me. So I‟m settin‟ under the sewin‟ machine. On the treadle of the sewin‟ machine cryin‟. I remember that part of it. So that‟s about as far back as I can remember. McCroskey: And how long did you stay on that ranch?
Brown: We weren‟t on the ranch. We had moved to Congress. But these incidents I‟m tellin‟ you about was before that. That was probably, oh I don‟t know, early on. And we moved to Page 6 of 50
Prescott. We lived in Prescott in ‟17. I think there on South Montezuma. The old covered bridge was still there then. McCroskey: Did you go there for your father‟s work? Brown: No. We just went up there I guess primarily for my brother‟s birth. I guess that‟s the reason we went, I don‟t know. And from there we moved back to the ranch and we moved to Congress. I lived in Congress twice, you see, in those early years. We came back there oh, just about the end of the War. That‟s when these little steam engines were runnin‟ up and down the track. McCroskey: Like we have at the museum? Brown: Yeah, and I often wondered what had become of that „til somebody got a clipping out of the paper that told me where this engine was. I had seen the one in Phoenix rotting away, and I often wondered what become of the other one. Until I saw this clipping in the paper, I didn‟t realize where it went. McCroskey: And you came to visit it. Brown: I did! I sure did, when I found it was there. Because I remember when it was still running! Page 7 of 50
McCroskey: And what was it like? Congress must have been busy at that point. Brown: Well, yes. But of course it was startin‟ to die down. And this little engine was burnin‟ wood, and all the houses along the track, they all eventually caught fire and burned up because of this little engine. There was no water in town, see. So all of a sudden, there‟d be a house on fire, nothin‟ you could do but let it burn! Get the hell out of it. McCroskey: Did they haul the water in? Brown: Well, in the mining days, they pumped water over the mountain from Martinez Crick. Then they had a pipeline from Date Crick down there in the early days. The same pumpin‟ plant had a steam engine in it, and they pumped—and they had a railroad tank there that they filled, where railroad took on water there.
Later years they had one spigot out in front of the company store where some of the Congress people would come and get water. I remember as a little kid there was a man used to haul water from Congress Junction up there that had been brought in there by the railroad, see. There wasn‟t no water in Congress Junction, to what they call Congress today. He‟d bring it up there in a team of wagons and they sold it for two-Page 8 of 50
cents a gallon. You‟d go out—when he come by, you go out with your bucket and get your water, „til he come back next day! McCroskey: Did you work in the mine yourself, ever? Brown: A little. I only—in the Congress Mine in later years, in fact much later. When they was pumpin‟ water out of it I went down into that mine about 2000 feet, one time when a storm was comin‟ up „cause we wanted to raise the pump up. It was a big heavy pump. Took six or eight men and chain blocks and stuff to raise it up. Well, while we were down there, we heard this terrific noise in this old shaft, so we started to get outta there. Well, as we started outta there, here come a rush of water down the shaft, and I remember catchin‟ one kid by the arm, otherwise he‟d got drug down the shaft.
We got up to the next level and we got out there, and pretty soon the water stopped. So we went back to see what happened to the pump and start workin‟ to raise it, „cause it hadn‟t changed the level too much. Every time a little rock‟d fall or something we‟d all get scared. So we finally said, heck that‟s far enough anyway. So we went up a level, and while we were settin‟ there in the level, another one came Page 9 of 50
down. So when that water quit we got outta there. And just—apparently they‟d had a cloudburst up there. „Cause the shaft was open to the air and there was a tunnel off the side of it. Well, we could go out through that tunnel; we couldn‟t go out the surface. When the water was comin‟ in [through] that tunnel. McCroskey: And about when was this? Brown: Oh, that was about 1938 or something like that. That‟s the only time I worked there. McCroskey: When you quit going to school, did you leave Congress then? Brown: Oh, I left Congress—quit goin‟ to school in Congress in ‟21. McCroskey: And then what did you do? Brown: I went to Tempe and stayed with an aunt I had down there. My mother‟s aunt. I went to school there a couple, three years. Then I come back to Congress for about a month or two; then I went to California and worked over there for a while in the Barker Brothers Furniture store. Then I left there and went to sea for about five years, for the Union Oil Company. Page 10 of 50
McCroskey: Tell me what Tempe was like when you were going to school there? Brown: Well, it wasn‟t too big a place. I think there was only about fifty or sixty men in the dormitory. Couple hundred girls, „bout all. The main building and the—let‟s see, they had the main building and a little auditorium and then they had a history building or something. I don‟t know what we called that. Then they had the training school where I was going. Little training school right there by the main building. They had an industrial arts building off across the street. But Eighth Avenue was one side of it and—I forget. The other street was Normal Avenue—I don‟t remember now. But it was a small place. The football field—right at the end of the football field was desert! And oh, what was that: Kraus Mess Hall. And this Casa Viejo, you know? Sally Hayden, Minnie Porter, and Mrs. Rowe—I forgot her name—those three girls started a Mexican Restaurant in that, in the old Hayden home. That‟s how that got to be a restaurant was those women started a Mexican restaurant there. McCroskey: Was there a bridge across the Salt River at that time?
Brown: I know that railroad bridge was there, but I don‟t remember the other bridge. I guess there was. Yeah, that old bridge Page 11 of 50
was there. There was an old bridge. I don‟t know whether it‟s still there or not. It still flooded pretty big there, „cause I remember there was a steam shovel diggin‟ gravel outta there and the flood come up and just buried that steam shovel. McCroskey: They used the railroads a lot, didn‟t they? Brown: Oh, yes. You wanted to go anywhere, you went by rail. Because that road up to Hillside, from here to Hillside, and up around through that way, that used to be the road to Prescott. When I was a kid, I lived over on that road there, probably in ‟20. And I think there was more horse and wagons traveled on that road than there was automobiles. And they graded it once a year. The camp would come down there, the County, with their little four-horse grader and about a five-foot blade on it and plows and scrapers, and they‟d work a little piece of road, then they‟d move their camp on down and work another piece „til they graded that whole road. But they wouldn‟t be back for another year. McCroskey: Do you remember when the Yarnell Hill road was built? Were you around at that time?
Brown: I was in the service. I mean, in the Merchant Marine then. But I fired the hot plant, the mixing plant, when they paved it the first time. Page 12 of 50
McCroskey: Okay, let‟s get to that. After you worked for Union Oil Company, when did you come back to Arizona? Brown: Oh, about ‟30, ‟31. McCroskey: Did you come to Congress? Brown: Yes, first one place then another around there. McCroskey: And then the road was built when? Brown: The road was built I think in ‟29, when they built the road. But they didn‟t pave it „til ‟31, „32, somewhere in there. McCroskey: And where was your batch plant?
Brown: Right on Martinez Wash. Right where you cross Martinez Wash, right after, on this side here [indicating]. Well, it was right off to the—down the creek from the bridge a little bit. That‟s where I was workin‟ there firin‟ that boiler, and gravel too they was heatin‟. They was changin‟ a pulley on an engine. They hollered, “Garth, Garth!” I didn‟t pay no attention to „em. All of a sudden, I realized they was callin‟ me because I was so used to “Brownie.” When they did that, the sand that went into that pavement on that hill was loaded by hand onto trucks and brought over there, and they fed that Page 13 of 50
plant with mules when they first paved that. They had a whole string of mules in the blacksmith shop there. McCroskey: And that was the road that is now the down part—the down side, right? Brown: That used to be up and down. But when they put the first pavement on I was firin‟ the boiler there. McCroskey: And Arrowhead was there, even then? Brown: Now, lemmie see: Arrowhead used to—when it first started by Perkins, it was just below where that hot plant was. And the road went up that little draw there. And I can‟t remember when they started that Arrowhead. I guess they had moved up there already. „Cause I think Perkins moved up on that road when they got it paved, you know. Before that the road went out of Congress and went off across the crick way down below and went up, followed the crick up that canyon there, see. Entirely different route. McCroskey: Yeah, went through Stanton and Octave and up that way.
Brown: Well, that‟s what we used to go to Stanton Octave too, was go right out of Congress over there. You took the same road that you would take to Stanton and Octave, only down at the Page 14 of 50
bottom of the hill you forked off and turned and went toward what is now Arrowhead. McCroskey: And then were there other businesses along the way between there? Wasn‟t there a station somewhere at the bottom of the hill? Brown: Yes, can‟t think of the guy‟s name right now. More bootleg joint than anything. Right down at the bottom of the hill on the right hand side. I think there‟s a couple of Joshua cactus there now. What was that fellow‟s name? I can‟t think of it. (Garna Melugin: Foothills is the name of it.) Well, I know, but I‟m tryin‟ to think of the old man‟s name that first lived there. McCroskey: And then at the top of the hill there was another business, wasn‟t there? Brown: Yes, that was Desert View. McCroskey: The stamp mills that you ran?
Brown: Well, the first ones I run was in the Hershkowitz [phonetic] Mine. It was a five-stamp mill. The Hershkowitz Mine, and that‟s up at Congress on the north and west side. Then the second one I run was the Mammoth Mine up out of Yava. It was a ten-stamp. And the third one was a ten-stamp at the Page 15 of 50
old Tiger Mine south of Aguila. And then I worked on one at the Pump Mines and that‟s south of Aguila. And then, at the Tiger Mine, I was assistant superintendent there as well, besides runnin‟ it there, and mechanic. McCroskey: How did you get into working in the mines? Brown: Oh, by accident, I guess. That‟s what was available at the time. I needed a job, I guess. When I was in the Merchant Marine I was a fireman, oiler and stuff like that. I was in the engine room. I fooled around with machinery most of my life. At the Alvarado Mine—you know that mine where the dairy is? I worked as a miner in that and was master mechanic there, and I worked underground there two, three times. At the Octave Mine, I was a welder. Only time I got underground was to do some repair on a hoist one time. McCroskey: Tell me about Stanton and Octave. Were they both still pretty active? Brown: Oh, yeah. Take during the war—oh, not during the war, during the Depression—old man Langerot died. Told you „bout that, he had a store. I went out there. The place was full of people up there because— Page 16 of 50
Langerot had a store in Congress. He had the baker‟s shop too. And I went with him. He had a peddlin‟ wagon. Then, there were lots of people out there because they could probably dig up a dollar or two worth of gold a day by workin‟ hard, and they could live on that. And old Langerot would go out there and peddle stuff for gold. He had a little gold scale, and they bought something he weighed the gold out. Gave „em the merchandise. At the same time, there was a fella by the name of Hershkowitz that had a peddlin‟ wagon. McCroskey: Tell me how they converted the gold into cash. Where did they sell it? Brown: Well, like Langerot and Hershkowitz, they‟d ship it to the mint. The mint bought gold at that location. McCroskey: Just in the mail?
Brown: I can‟t remember whether they shipped it in the mail. I know in the Alvarado Mine, when I was workin‟ there, we melted out in big bars we shipped to the mint. But it went by express. So I don‟t know, these smaller amounts, how it went. I never did see „em mail it. They could have very well mailed it, „cause in those days you got automobile tires and Page 17 of 50
whatever in the mail. So it could have very well went by mail. McCroskey: I have some stories I want to hear. Tell me about your father‟s death. Brown: Well, back in those days, most of the cowboys carried a gun. It started fading out about that time, carrying guns, but there was still some that carried guns. They were roundin‟ up cattle up there on Willow Springs. That‟s up close to Date Creek, and supposedly—well not supposedly, this actually happened. My dad and one of the boys was sleepin‟ up in Sunflower Flat which is up in the country, and he left his gun there that night. So next day when they was roundin‟ up, he didn‟t have a gun. They was roundin‟ up cattle; they was gatherin‟ „em there at Willow Springs and—we don‟t know this for a fact, but—the fella, a kid, come up and saw that my dad didn‟t have a gun, he went back and told the other guy, “Well ol‟ Jim don‟t have a gun, so he come up with his gun and said, “I‟m goin‟ to shoot you, you som‟ bitch!” Bang, bang, bang! Shot him off his horse. That‟s how he died. McCroskey: Did that result in a criminal trial or anything?
Brown: Well, no, the guy that did the shooting, supposedly he‟d been paid to do this. This is the story I got. I‟ve got no way of Page 18 of 50
substantiatin‟ that he was paid, but he was supposedly paid to do this. And he hid out up there in the rocks somewhere for three, four days and finally somebody snuck him off into Mexico. Now the story I get—again, I can‟t substantiate it—is that he crossed the border down in there and the banditos got to him first and got his money. And he stayed down there, I don‟t know, a year or so, and then come back and give himself up, and they had a trial and gave him life in prison. Well, somehow or other, probably the guys that paid to have it done, influential enough, Governor Hunt pardoned him. So he went—he lived I guess „til he died— McCroskey: Do you know that man‟s name? Brown: Bug Barnett. McCroskey: And how old were you when that happened? Brown: Oh, I was about eleven, I guess. McCroskey: We‟re really close to the end of the tape. Let me turn it over.
. .Side 2 begins:
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McCroskey: This is Mona McCroskey, side 2 of my interview with Garth Brown. Tell me about taking your lunch from Piedmont to school. Brown: Well, I rode to school, about a three-mile ride every day. We used to carry our lunch in a pound coffee can in a sack tied behind the saddle. The little horse I had was a—had just a plain ol‟ bit in his mouth, wasn‟t a snaffle bit at all. She liked to run away. So this particular time she run away with me for, I don‟t know, a mile or two, quite a ways anyway. So lunch time, I got my pound coffee can out and opened it and it was all crumbled! Those bakin‟ powder biscuits and bacon were all ground up from that runaway. I remember the teacher, Mary Cannon, she gave me a—I think it was an onion sandwich she had, so I‟d have some lunch. McCroskey: Was this about the time you had the pet pig? Brown: Well, in that era, I don‟t remember. The pet pig I had was a little red pig. He‟d lay down, I‟d scratch him, and then he‟d get tired of that he‟d flop over on the other side and let you scratch the other side. And one day the train come through, I see him bouncin‟ up and down under the train. Train had run over him. That was the end of my little pig. Page 20 of 50
McCroskey: I understand also that you cooked for some bootleggers? Brown: Oh, that was a crazy thing! There were some guys come to me one day, and he says, “Brownie, we got”—I forget what—“six barrels of mash buried,” you know, „bout that much of it above the sand, “and it‟s all ready to distill, see, and we got all our money tied up in that stuff.” He says, “The Pro-His (pronounced pro-high: prohibitionists) come in there and tore up the still and everything and throwed a shovel full of sand in each barrel, which didn‟t hurt it a damn bit,” he said, “but we don‟t know where there‟s a still. We need another still so we can see if we can recover our loss.” So I said, “Well, I know a fella used to have one.” So I went down there and he says, “Yeah, back over there”—and so and so—“I‟ll loan it to you. It‟s over there.”
So at night we went and got it and I was with „em; rather than take me back home I went with „em. Went up to Kirkland country. And he said, “I know just the place to leave this. We‟ll set it over on top of this little hill.” Well, next mornin‟, breakin‟ day, we went to get it. Godfrey, you could see this thing settin‟ up on this hill from every direction off the Page 21 of 50
highway! I was almost afraid to go up—and it didn‟t mean nothin‟ to me. I was just bein‟ friendly. Anyway, we went and got it, no problem, went down and—they didn‟t really know how to set up a still. Only reason I knew is because I‟d been workin‟ with steam all my life before, you know. Anyway, we got the still set up and started makin‟ whiskey. There was a big rock bluff up above us. We kept one man up there watchin‟ and the other two down here tendin‟ the still. They, oh, I don‟t know. They had three, four barrels of whiskey made already, and they says—they had to go to town for something—and I say, “Well, you ought to get rid of this whiskey. They‟re gonna come back.” “Oh, no they won‟t be back after this.”
So, I was settin‟ up there talkin‟, and I hollered down to the guys, “Get out of the way, I heard some noise.” Well, here comes a band of goats over the hill, bringin‟ „em in to water. We hollered down—he said, “You holler down to „em. He‟ll recognize my voice. Holler down, tell him to have a drink!” Well, when I hollered at him—of course he couldn‟t see me—he jumped, and he stood there with his hands out, and I said, “There‟s a can there. Get you a drink.” And he took a Page 22 of 50
drink and then he started to set the can down, [I said] “Better have another one.” And he jumped again, “No, I‟ve got enough.” He got them goats and got „em the heck out of there right now! Well, the boys decided—they went to town and they didn‟t put their whiskey away or nothin‟. I says, “Those guys, they‟ll all be back here because they didn‟t take no evidence. They‟ll be back.” Well, we had a signal from the lookout: if you hollered “Up the wash!” that meant to run down the wash; and vice versa. This other boy, ol‟ Bill and I, we was just getting‟ everything goin‟ and it was just workin‟ good, startin‟ to drip a little whiskey out. The other fella says, “Come on up here, Brownie. Want to talk to you.” So I went up there, and we‟s settin‟ there talkin‟ and all of a sudden here comes this great big ol‟ black limousine in, and we hollered “Up the wash!” He run up the wash, damn near run into „em! (Laughs.) So, we‟re settin‟ up there in the damn boulder pile and these guys come down and they were surprised. Hell, had no idea what they were gonna find. And they come down, looked around. You could see they were surprised. Page 23 of 50
So—„course we all had guns—like I said, we were up in this big high boulder pile up out of the way, and I said, “I‟m gonna have some fun.” I told this guy—I laid the gun down—I said, “I‟m gonna put a shot down there somewhere.” „Cause they couldn‟t even see us, you know. He jumped up and he says, “Look out, he‟s gonna shoot you!” Took off runnin‟ over the hill, left his coat and his gun and everything else. Well at this point, only thing I could do was to get up and go too, because, hell, I don‟t want to fight these kids, I just wanted to scare „em a little bit. Surprise „em. I wasn‟t gonna shoot at anybody. So, I don‟t know what ever become of that stuff. Last I seen they was choppin‟ the barrels with an axe. I don‟t know. McCroskey: There were a lot of bootleggers around weren‟t there? Brown: Oh yeah. You know what the Pro-His used to do, they used to come out and they‟d shoot quail, and they‟d open „em up and check their craw to see whether they had mash in „em or not to know whether they was close to a still somewhere. They weren‟t really quail hunters, they were Pro-His.
McCroskey: And you mentioned goats, the goat herder? And I‟m interested in goats. During the „20s, „30s, there were lots of goats down here, weren‟t there? Page 24 of 50
Brown: Ooh! Lots of goats. Yeah, I even herded „em one day for a guy. Langerot had a band; Billingsley had a band; that‟s all around Congress. In fact, Langerot had another band in Octave. And then, Mendotes had a band up in there. Oh, god, everybody had a band o‟ goats. There were goats everywhere. That‟s what‟s the matter today with our area. When I was a kid, you could drive out in that Congress desert anywhere; there was no washes or nothin‟. Now there‟s big deep washes, there‟s bare spots. In those days it was all good grassland. McCroskey: It was overgrazed by the goats? Brown: No, had the cattle in there. Everybody had wild horses. My family had a little 3A brand. We all had wild horses as well as cows. And what they‟d do, they‟d start down here maybe low, and they start workin‟ north, see, and as they went through they‟d pick up new ranchers and drop off some and check their cattle, you know, they get their cattle all together.
Well then, they was pretty good, but then the sheep men came in, and then the sheep cut the feed down to where there‟s hardly anything left. Well now, the only thing left is the browse for the goats. So then they bring goats in and they eat all the brush off the country. So I mean, they really Page 25 of 50
overgrazed it. At one time they sheared two hundred thousand head of sheep a year in Congress Junction. McCroskey: Was that the shipping point too, for livestock? Brown: Yeah, those stockyards that are there now, at one time they were the biggest stockyards west of the Mississippi. „Cause they could load four cars of sheep. Four carloads of sheep at one time, I mean. Two cars with four decks of sheep at one time there. McCroskey: Did you know the Billingsley family? Brown: Oh, yes. Which one? There‟s two of „em. McCroskey: Well, Buck and Cecil are the ones that I knew. Brown: Yeah, well their nephew worked for me for twenty-four years—Michael. Yeah, I knew „em. I went to school with Elontine and Lucille. When Buck first started to school, he—I rode with him. He come, I think, only maybe a week, but that‟s all I rode with Bucky. McCroskey: Does the family still own that ranch up there?
Brown: No, that ranch where they lived then, I don‟t know who owns it now. In fact, there‟s nobody lives right where their ranch was. In later years, why they owned the OX Ranch, but by Page 26 of 50
that time, Elontine and Lucille had already left home, you know. They‟re all dead now but Cecil. McCroskey: Did you actually live in Octave at one time? Brown: Well, I lived in the boardin‟ house. I lived in the boardin‟ house while I was there. And her [Garna‟s] mother had a little store there on the flat. And that‟s where I met her. And then we were married in Prescott, I think about ‟37. McCroskey: And what was her name? Brown: Edna. She was a Muse. Her grandmother came into the Verde Valley in a covered wagon. McCroskey: What was her family name? Brown: Uh! Well, her family was Muse. But her grandmother—(to Garna) what was grandma Hawn‟s name, Davidson? Well, she married a Muse, but Davidson was her maiden name. I know she told me, and so did her brother—oh, Bill was her brother, wasn‟t he? Told me about when they played down along the river, every once in a while they‟d find a dead Indian layin‟ down there in the river bottom. That was a ways back, when they came there. McCroskey: Were there any Indian people here that you remember? Page 27 of 50
Brown: Well, over here on Date Crick there was an Indian settlement there. Ol‟ Indian Jim was the chief. I don‟t know, only other one I knew there was Indian Rosie. There was a bunch of other ones, but that‟s the only two names I—well, wait a minute. There was another one, Tim, I knew. Tim and ol‟ Indian Jim and Indian Rosie, but I don‟t know how they were tied together. McCroskey: Did they just come there certain times of the year or did they live there year around? Brown: No, they lived there. They lived there on Date Crick. Ol‟ Indian Jim, you ask him something, he‟d say, “Maybe so yes; maybe so no; maybe so I don‟t know.” That‟s one of his favorite expressions. Let‟s see. What else was there around there I could tell you about. I don‟t know how to tell you anything. I drove truck to the old Hillside Mine before Bagdad ever opened up. McCroskey: Oh, that road through Date Creek?
Brown: No, that road runs from Hillside through Bagdad, to what‟s Bagdad now, down into Boulder Crick to the Hillside Mine. Used to haul concentrate out of there in sacks. The first trucks that was haulin‟ concentrate out of the Hillside Mine Page 28 of 50
used to come down—I don‟t know where they were goin‟, I guess to the smelter—and they were those old bulldog backed trucks with solid rubber tires. I remember comin‟ through there. McCroskey: What time period was that? Brown: Oh, you know, I never paid much attention to that stuff in them days. McCroskey: Before or after they paved the road? Brown: I‟m tryin‟ to think. Oh, wait a minute; I forget. That‟s different. That was probably in the „30s. McCroskey: During the Depression?
Brown: Yeah, or right after. Or not really after, it was Depression time. Another fun thing I had, that big stamp mill I showed you, was tellin‟ about? I was puttin‟ a new shoe on there one time. And I don‟t know what happened, but they dropped this thing and it caught my finger in there between the new shoe. So I sent the kid up to the shop to get a wood chisel so I could drive it in there so if something happened it wouldn‟t mash it completely off. And then they had to twist that around so they could get a pin head [phonetic] to drive it off Page 29 of 50
to get my hand out of there, and when they hit that thing with the double jack I‟d keep slack on my hand. McCroskey: But you kept your finger, huh? Brown: I kept my finger. McCroskey: Where did the—do you call it concentrate when it comes out of the stamp mill, is that the proper term? Brown: Well, the concentrate is when you separate the worthless stuff from the good stuff. In lots of cases it‟s sulfides [that] were separated from just the white quartz rock, see. But now in the Tiger Mine, where I got my finger caught that time, we used a concentrating table, but we didn‟t make much concentrate. Mostly free gold, so we caught it on copper plates that were covered with quicksilver. Amalgamate is what they called it. McCroskey: And where was it taken? Where did the trucks take it? Brown: Which, the concentrate? Oh, some smelter. Probably at that time, probably Superior. I think that was the closest. I‟m not sure. I don‟t know where they were haulin‟ it to. McCroskey: How long did you work in the mines and when did you stop? Page 30 of 50
Brown: When‟s the last time I worked in the mines? Well, the last time I worked in the mines was, oh, about ‟44, ‟43, somewhere along in there. McCroskey: Toward the end of World War II. Brown: Yeah, the war was still on. I remember because I had a C-card for gas, and they always asked if you needed any shoes. You know, you had to have stamps, and “how‟s your red stamps?” Well, they were all good because in town nobody had meat you could buy. McCroskey: First, what was the Depression like for you. Was it a hard time, or what? Brown: See, I was single then, so I survived alright. But it got pretty tight. I mean, I remember having a hard time getting‟ enough money together to buy a pair of shoes. I was pret‟ near barefooted. McCroskey: Did you do any hunting? Brown: Well, a little. Not much. Later on, later years I hunted. But when I was young in those Depression times, I didn‟t do any huntin‟. McCroskey: Tell me about when you did hunt. Page 31 of 50
Brown: Oh, nothin‟ exciting about it. Just go out and shoot a deer or an elk once in a while. But I don‟t remember any particular—well, one interesting thing, one time when they, up on the high country, five men froze to death that winter. Winifred Jackson and I was huntin‟ in Chevelon Butte country. We was goin‟ up on the rim, but we was talkin‟ to a cowboy there and snowflakes started fallin‟. I swear they were six inches in diameter, those snowflakes. So we decided we better stay on the flat. So we put up our tent there right by an old burn, and I broke up a little wood, put it under a shovel to start a fire with, and during the night why Jack says, “Wake up Brownie, it‟s snowin‟.” Well, by the time it got daylight the snow was about two-foot deep around us. So we couldn‟t go nowhere. So we drove this fence line, oh, for about a mile there while we still could, but every once in a while we‟d ride it. We was ridin‟ on top of the snow. „Bout a week later, a guy come walkin‟ in there and he says, “How‟d you guys get here?” “We‟ve been here all the time!” We didn‟t just get there; we got there before the snow fell. McCroskey: Do you remember years that the weather was severe, either in the winter or with summer rains?
Brown: Well back in the, like in the „20s we had a drought. Page 32 of 50
McCroskey: During that time you worked in the mines, were there any accidents, serious ones? Brown: Well, at the Octave there was a young fella—can‟t think of his name now—but he got caved in and killed. Young guy. It was just about the time Social Security came out, and I remember his wife got, oh, I don‟t know, seems like it was $800 for his death. Then, that was the Octave, and I was workin‟ for them, but another time, a feller stood up and it killed him, but I wasn‟t workin‟ there then. I had left there. I don‟t believe anybody‟d ever got hurt at the Alvarado. I worked a little while, couple times up there at the old Yarnell Mine. I worked there as a welder one time, and another time I just filled in for somebody that couldn‟t work that day. He was an underground pusher. But all I did was trail him. But that—you could hear the doggone thing cavin‟ all the time up there, way back in there. So I don‟t know how they figger on minin‟ that hill. It‟s all undermined underneath it. McCroskey: When you were young, the travel must have been a lot different. You want to tell me about your trip to the Santa Maria River? Page 33 of 50
Brown: Oh, well, it was the month of July, no wait a minute, June. Month of June, in, I think, about ‟23 or ‟24. I don‟t remember. And this same fella that used to haul the water to Congress I was tellin‟ you about? With his team? Well he had a light wagon too, and this is many years later, but it was the same man, and he wanted to go out and look at some mining claims he had at the Santa Maria River. So we left daylight in the mornin‟ with his team, a bale or two of hay, and a barrel of water. We tried to get the dogs to stay back. We had about four dogs following us. Hackberry, there‟s water there. But by the time we got to Hackberry we didn‟t have any dogs. We said maybe we‟ll pick „em up on the way back, but we never did see „em again.
Well, then we went off. We got to the river just about, in the evenin‟, you know. Well he wanted to go look at one of the tunnels before it got dark, so anyway, he was a man, oh, I guess at that time eighty-plus, which was old, real old in them days. So we went in and looked at the tunnel. „Course I had to watch him „cause he was pretty fragile. We started out of the tunnel, an‟ here comes a damn rattlesnake in. Now, I had a hell of a time tryin‟ to find anything to throw at it to discourage it to get it to go back out. „Cause it was a pretty clean tunnel, there wasn‟t no loose rocks; a little dirt Page 34 of 50
once in a while. Kept throwin‟ stuff at it, it finally turned around and went out. Didn‟t have nothin‟ big enough to kill it with. And that‟s about all there was to it. So next morning why we went up and looked the mining claims all over, and I guess we must have stayed there that night because we had to leave in daylight in order to make that trip. It was about thirty miles across there. But back in those days, there would be guys out in there that would walk to Congress, get their mail, stay all night, walk back the next day. McCroskey: Were they prospectors? Brown: Well, hermits out there in the hills somewhere. Miners, yes. McCroskey: How „bout your trips between Congress and Tempe? Did you do that very often? Brown: One time. We drove—I know when we moved to Tempe, we left the ranch at daylight in the mornin‟ and we got to Tempe at sundown in a Model-T. Took that long; all day. So travel has changed quite a bit hasn‟t it? McCroskey: Yes it has. Have you spent a lot of time around Wickenburg—around and in Wickenburg?
Brown: What, me? Now? Oh, I‟ve been here in Wickenburg now for, oh Christ—I came here in ‟44, ‟45. Page 35 of 50
McCroskey: Well, and probably in and out when you were younger. Brown: No, see you didn‟t travel that much when I was younger. Just like, I was livin‟ up there on the other side of Congress; I never went to Congress Junction but a couple three times. You didn‟t go to Congress Junction unless you had a definite reason to, „cause you had to go out, catch your horse, saddle him up and ride him down there and then ride back, you know. We didn‟t do those things unless they were necessary and they weren‟t, so you didn‟t do „em. McCroskey: Tell me about Wickenburg when you came here then, in 1944. Was that during the heyday of the dude ranch, or a little before? Brown: Yeah, the dude ranches were full blast then. Full blast. And all this flat country around here was all hills, and they graded „em all off and built this road out through there. That was all rollin‟ hills before. McCroskey: And did you work here? Came here to work?
Brown: Oh, when I first come here, I came here for her mother‟s health. She had to get down to lower elevation. So, you know, it was Depression time yet. And the war, nobody had any material, so what I did, I did a little repair work, Page 36 of 50
carpenter work around, a little electrician work, a little of everything. And then one time, I came home after something and—I forget what I‟d been doin‟ that day—and the kid was with me and wanted to get out of the car. Well, I jumped out of the car to help him do something. I don‟t remember. Anyway, I didn‟t lock the car. It got stole that night. So now, I‟m out of a car. I carried that big old tool box on my shoulder around to these different jobs for I don‟t know how long. No wonder the shoulder‟s no good today. So then, her dad and her—I don‟t know what it‟d be—her uncle or something—(To Garna: what was [unintelligible]. your uncle? Response: Mm hm. My mom‟s uncle.) Your mom‟s uncle. Yeah.) Well, they built the first house here after the war. And I helped him lay the blocks; I mixed the mortar for it. And then I mixed—when her dad started plasterin‟ it—he was a plasterer too—I mixed the mud for him and finally he said, “Why don‟t you get up here and spread some of this mud?” So I did and helped with those couple of jobs, and then we poured some floors
. One place out here we had awful floors. We poured the floor up and curved around and made a baseboard, all in one piece. I did Page 37 of 50
most of that then before they settled the floor afterwards. Well, finally they—I don‟t know—her grandpa wanted to do something else, her uncle wanted to do something else, so finally I bought them out and I went into the plasterin‟ business myself. McCroskey: We‟re out of tape. Let me get a new one. McCroskey: This is Mona McCroskey, side 3 of my interview with Garth Brown.
Brown: I don‟t know whether it was ‟35 or ‟36 they had that big snowstorm. They had over a foot of snow in Congress Junction, and that pipeline that fed the Octave Mine from up Antelope Crick froze and broke in many, many places. We started out reparin‟ it. Had the welding outfit on a burro. Cold, cold! Oh, it was cold. Tryin‟ to get water back to the mines. And a lot of places we‟d find where some prospector had just poked a little hole in it, got a drink of water, and then put a plug in it. Well, one place that I was lookin‟ I found where somebody had done exactly that, and I bet that there was an icicle that came out of it like this and curled around and on the end of that icicle was the plug! Anyway, one day, we was way back in there and we went to—unloaded our weldin‟ tanks to start weldin‟ and we had no gas. Opened up, Page 38 of 50
nothin‟ come out. Oh, we was all upset that we brought an empty up there. So we fooled around there and waited „til we went back and got another tank. Come to find out the damn tank was just frozen. It was full of gas but it was just so damn cold it froze. And the last weld I made, I‟d run out of weldin‟ rod, and I welded it with hacksaw blades for weldin‟ rod to get it back runnin‟ again. McCroskey: It was really unusual to have snow that stayed at Congress, wasn‟t it? Brown: Oh, I forgot what the temperature was. It was way down there. Oh, it was cold! McCroskey: Go back and tell me about Catholic School. Brown: Well (chuckles). (Sigh) Oh, why bring up memories like that! Anyway my mother was a strong Catholic girl. And I had an aunt, grandmother; they were all good strong Catholic people. Well, they decided that maybe they oughta send me to school to become a priest. So they hauled me down to—let‟s see, we went on the train that time. Went by train down there to Tempe. My mother took me over to the convent in Phoenix. Page 39 of 50
Here, you just got to picture this: a kid that‟s raised out here in the boondocks, wide open, same as a wild animal practically, and they took me to this convent, and it‟s got a big high fence around it. Well, that was pretty depressin‟. And then when I asked for coffee they frowned on me. That night everybody had to take a bath, so if you didn‟t go take a bath; one of them sisters come in there and bathed ya‟. The next mornin‟ you went to school. But you had to cross the street out of the convent to go to the school. Well, take this wild animal out here in the desert, and you got him in this little school room and, “Mr. Brown!” That‟s the way—they didn‟t call ya Garth. “Mr. Brown. . .” Anyway, at noontime when we went for lunch, we hadda go back across the street. And I‟d noticed some kids run down the street. Anyway they had some kinda lunch, I don‟t remember if I ate—and they had some kind of an outfit with statues in it made out of rocks against the fence. And I was climbin‟ that and almost got over the fence and the sister grabbed me, pulled me back in. Well, when we got back to school, I see one kid that I recognized, I‟d seen him before. I said, “Where did you go during lunch hour?” “Oh, I went home!” Page 40 of 50
Ahhh! So when school let out that evenin‟ I didn‟t go across the street. I went down the street as fast as I could go. And lucky, when they took me over there, Mother‟d showed me the Insane Asylum, see, and that impressed me. That‟s where they took the crazy people. So all of a sudden I see oh, there‟s that buildin‟! That‟s all I knew about bein on the right road, so down that road I went. And I ran and walked all the way to Tempe. And every time I‟d hear a car comin‟—it was a dirt road—hear a car comin‟ or a motorcycle or something, I‟d get in the brush and hide. And I got to Tempe. Bein‟ an old desert rat livin‟ in the hills, I kinda knew my way, you know, figger out where I was at. And I come in the back way into the house and crawled in behind the bathtub, cryin‟ of course. Oh, the phone was ringin‟; they hadn‟t found me; the police were lookin‟ for me in Phoenix and Tempe and everywhere else; couldn‟t nobody find me. Finally, somebody had to go to the bathroom and there‟s ol‟ Brown hidin‟ in there cryin‟. McCroskey: That was the end of your career as a priest, huh?
Brown: No, well, it was the end, really. The next day, my mother took me over there and this ol‟ sister, somethin‟ was said, and my mother said, “Well, we‟re not goin‟ to leave him here.” Page 41 of 50
So she just let me go like that. And one ol‟ sister had one of them ol‟ horns you stick in your ear. Then I went to school at that trading school down there, and the first day of school why three or four boys got around me and picked a fight. Tromped the hell out of me. So I was bawlin‟, went home again. I‟m goin‟ across this flat there and was cryin‟ and mad, and I turned around and they were all gathered around this guy with a big smile and they were all congratulating one another or somethin‟. So I turned around and I come back and I was runnin‟ as hard as I could. This kid that was beatin‟ on me the worst, I run right into him and knocked him down, I hit him so hard. I was runnin‟ as hard as I could go. So while he was down, I beat the livin‟ hell outta him. And I was one of the gang after that. McCroskey: You earned your stripes! Brown: Yeah, earned my stripes. McCroskey: What was Phoenix like when you went down there? What do you remember it like, your early trips? Brown: Well, it was tidy, in comparison. I don‟t really know. I can‟t think of anything.
McCroskey: Just those buildings that you‟ve described. Page 42 of 50
Brown: Yeah, I couldn‟t tell you what it looked like now, but at the time I remember, I think, Tovera‟s or something. I believe it was. And I know there‟s a bridge on that creek in Tempe now, because I cross the bridge there. McCroskey: Would you tell me about—Wickenburg was kind of a cross roads for transportation—about the railroad—and since you‟ve been here in the „40s—about the railroad and the highway? Brown: It used to be two trains south—passenger trains I‟m talkin‟ about—south, two north, every day, besides two trains to Los Angeles every day, passenger trains. Plus the freight trains. So we had a lot of traffic here, train wise. McCroskey: Was that road that goes to Blythe open when you came already or was it opened after you lived here? Brown: No, there was a road to Blythe, because I went across there with this Mary Cannon I told you was my teacher once, and it was dirt road all the way to—oh, I think it was by Indio before we got into any pavement. I remember goin‟ down a long dirt sand wash before we got into Indio. McCroskey: But it was paved sometime in the early forties? Page 43 of 50
Brown: Yeah, but this was long before that. In the „30s, early „30s I come across there once one year with an uncle of mine in a truck, and we were haulin‟ mineral water to Phoenix. We‟d come through Desert Center, and we got on across that flat toward Blythe and come a little rise and went to step on the gas—nothin‟ happened. Got out—dirt road yet—got out, we‟d lost the chain. So I walked back toward Desert Center, I don‟t know how far now, quite a ways, „til I found that chain and drug it back to the truck. All that walkin‟ back there and bringin‟ that chain back, not one car passed us. Can you imagine that? When you look at I-10 today? McCroskey: Tell me about your mother. Brown: Well, like what? McCroskey: What do you remember about her? What did she like to do? What was her life like? Brown: Well, she was artistic. Oh, yeah. She liked to draw stuff. She was a pretty—how would I say it? She knew how to cope with things pretty well. McCroskey: And she kind of raised you, didn‟t she after your father died young? Page 44 of 50
Brown: Yeah, had to raise us kids. She got married again and that didn‟t help matters too much, „cause he wasn‟t that good of a provider. Yeah, she was pretty handy about, what would you call it, brute force. Oh, I don‟t know. But she knew how to handle a situation pretty well, take care of stuff. McCroskey: Okay. And you used mules here in Wickenburg? Garna: Oh, when the bank opened. Brown: Oh, when they first brought a bank into Wickenburg, why we had a contest ridin‟ burros from the bridge up to the bank. McCroskey: And you took part? Brown: Yeah, I rode a burro. McCroskey: Did you win? Brown: No. Had an ol‟ rotten burro with a crooked neck. McCroskey: Well, you‟re still a busy man. Tell me what you‟re doing now? Brown: Well, I go down to what used to be my shop, answer a few questions once in a while. McCroskey: And where is that? Page 45 of 50
Brown: Oh, just as you cross the bridge from Prescott. Well, I guess you turned up by there didn‟t you? You see that big long brick building with the chain link fence around it? Well, that‟s my shop. It still is mine; I sold the business though. I go down there for a little while, and then Jim and I go to coffee with the boys. And before that, I go down to the laundry, light the boiler, drain the water off the compressor, and open the front door and get the laundry all back over there where they—when the help gets there they can start workin‟ on it. McCroskey: You‟re active in the community, too. Brown: Oh, I‟ve probably spent maybe twenty years on the city council, total. I‟ve been on there two, three times. I was mayor, once, 1970. McCroskey: What was that experience like? Brown: Oh, I always enjoyed it, always. When I was mayor was when we had that big flood that washed the fire truck and stuff away, and floated two cars away, and took our sewer plant out, the city, that was durin‟ my tour. McCroskey: So you were pretty busy. Page 46 of 50
Brown: No, I remember one fella said, “Boy, I wisht I was mayor now.” And the manager said, “Thank God you don‟t. Brownie‟s let‟n me run things.” That‟s what the city manager told him. McCroskey: And now you‟re on the planning and zoning? Brown: Um hm. McCroskey: Tell me what the philosophy is in Wickenburg about planning and zoning. Brown: Well, it‟s mixed. Some people wanna annex, so we‟re constantly, “Oh, we gotta annex.” Well, you can‟t just go out and annex. People want to be annexed—to start with you have to have fifty-one percent of the assessed value, and you have to have fifty-one percent of the residents to annex. And if you don‟t have it, you can‟t do nothin‟. So just to say we oughta annex, yeah, it‟d be nice if we had a big city, but in this town, there‟s a lot of people on the edge of town that have the benefit of the town, why do they want to be in it? McCroskey: Where are the boundaries right now?
Brown: Oh, down to the American Inn. That‟s the end of it that way. Out this way, why there‟s a little piece stretches out there and picks up The Meadows, Rincon Road. But it don‟t cover any Page 47 of 50
sides much (becomes unintelligible). Out this way it goes to the airport. West to the airport. McCroskey: And the river? It goes to the American Inn across the river? And what‟s your population? Brown: Oh, about five, I‟d say. McCroskey: How many would you say are in the outlying area? Brown: About the same amount. When I come here it was under a thousand. McCroskey: How about businesses? Are there a lot wanting to come? Brown: Well, not a lot of businesses here. There‟s a lot of restaurants. Lots of restaurants and lots of churches. But, businesswise, we got—what we got, two automobile agencies? Don‟t have too many service stations any more. McCroskey: Has the traffic decreased? Brown: Well, it has in one way and increased in another way. Because this traffic through here to California has decreased since [Interstate]-10, but the [Highways] 93 and 89 is lots of traffic. It‟s multiplied many times.
McCroskey: So you still have a good flow. Page 48 of 50
Brown: Oh, yeah. Now they‟re all hopin‟ we can get a bypass now. And what tickles me about everybody, they want a bypass because there‟s too many people downtown, yet when 93 had that big flood and caved off that they couldn‟t use it, they was hollerin‟, “When you gonna get that road fixed! When you gonna get that road fixed!” Now they‟re talkin‟ about they want a bypass. Well the city fought when they built 10. They fought about 15. They fought about 71. So now they want some. Far as I‟m concerned, they‟re not gonna get it. I think the highway department will do whatever they can when they can. What the highway department‟s gotta do, the biggest bottleneck is Boulder Dam on 93. That‟s the worst bottleneck. And until they build that bridge, I don‟t know, there‟s some pretty good talk on it now, but I don‟t know whether it‟s started or not. But until they build that bridge, why—and I think the estimated cost is $230 million. Well $230 million is gonna take a lotta money away from repairin‟ streets and buildin‟ bypasses! McCroskey: Well, thank you for talking to me. Let‟s stop and see if we can think of anything else. (Tape stops) Page 49 of 50
McCroskey: (Tape resumes) Tell me what you can remember about the locomotive that‟s now at Sharlot Hall Museum. Brown: To my knowledge the last engineer to run that was named Tipton. I don‟t know what his first name is, but his boy‟s name was Johnny. Another little item I remember about that locomotive. They had a big flywheel that they had to take out, probably off the dynamo, and their little car wasn‟t big enough to handle it, so they brought a car off the main line, and they got up in front of the company store, and they couldn‟t pull it any further with that little engine. I don‟t know how they finally got it up the hill „cause I was just a kid then, but I remember seein‟ it goin‟ back out so they got it loaded on the car. It‟s a big flywheel, you know, like those big wheels out here at Robson‟s [Mining World]? Well, they were too big for their little car. So they brought a car up off the main line, and he couldn‟t pull it any farther than in front of the company store. The grade started goin‟ up. McCroskey: If people wanted to see mining equipment and things from that era, do you think Robson‟s is the place to go?
Brown: Yeah, some of it is, yeah. I used to conduct tours out there. „Cause a lot of that stuff I‟ve run, you know, down through Page 50 of 50
the years past. But that‟s as good a mining exhibit as you‟ll ever find of that kind of equipment. McCroskey: This concludes my interview with Garth Brown.